Category: Parent Talk
I don't know what I am doing wrong. i've read all the books, i've tried all the tips, i've made up my oan routines, rules, and guide lines, i've went by other's, and it still doesn't cut it, this kid will not sleep threw the night. it doesn't matter if he's in his oan bed, or ours, he will not sleep threw the night. some nights he even wakes up every 30 minutes or so. if he's in the bed with us, he wakes up every time one of us roles over or gets up, if he's in bed by his self he wakes up because he's alone. we've left the tv on, we've left the night light's on we've left them off, we've left staddick playing on the radio, we've left a fan on, we've done every thing we know to do, and I just don't know what to do any more, i'm litterally in tears at the moment because i'm just so tired. we havent slep a full night of sleep since we brot him home from the hospital and that was 15 months ago. every one, and I mean everyone! told us it would get better, every one told us we wouldn't have to deal with this a year down the rode, but if any thing, it's gotten worse. I just don't know what to do! if i let him cry it out, he crys so hard for so long that he throw's up all over the bed, so that's not an option any more. if i go and get him the crying oddamaticly stops, and he's asleep before we even make it back to our bed, please, please, please! someone, anyone! help us.
i'm tired of reading the damn books, they don't help. i'm just plane tired.
signed, sleepless in austin
hmmmm maybe i don't if there is such a thing but maybe a baby monitor that senses the babies crying and soothes the baby with your voice. like a recording?? i hope you get some sleep!!
I did a quick search and here are some websites that I think may help you.
http://pediatrics.about.com/od/sleep/Sleep_Disorders_and_Sleep_Advice.htm
http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/sleep.htm
http://childparenting.about.com/od/childrenshealthadvice/a/sleepproblem.htm
I hope this helps.
Sometimes what we did was one of us would sit by the bed until she went to sleep. There are sound machines out there that make the sound of waves and such that can help. Some kids are really challenging with this stuff, my daughter was one though not to the level you're dealing with. They used to say kids were a blank tape and you got 'em home - it was all nurture ... now that I've got a teen, I've been calling BS on that for years ... it's not you guys.
Drug him. Yes, drug him. They do make sleep aids for babies now that are very safe, and it will be better for you and for him. I bet my mom wishes they were out when I was a baby because I've never slept through the night since I was born, and I still do not sleep through the night now, and I'm twenty-five. It was a good thing that my mom had a wonderful support system, as it would have caused her to go mad. NO matter what my mom did, I never slept through the night. She did try to make me cry it out, but it traumatized me. i remember it to this day. They say that children that young do not remember things like that, but that is so true. I remember so much from infancy that it is not funny. My mom never ever made me cry it out again. She had to come back for me because I was so scared I crapped myself and I was shaking violently. It took over an hour to calm me down because I was hiccuping so badly and was in hysterics. I remember that so well that it sometimes haunts me. I know it sound stupid, but it does. I'm so glad that you decided that cry it out would not be an option any longer. Good for you. I'm so proud of you for that.
Cry it out is cruel, and I'm sorry you were ever told to do that. I'm not saying you are cruel for doing it, you are a sincere mommy who was just given vile advice by an expert who sells trash to tired and desperate moms. I'm sorry that you were ever told that it was okay. Just think, it could never be done to a person who is disabled, elderly, or special needs because it would otherwise be considered neglect, so why do something so disgusting to a baby? Why the double standard? More and more experts are advising parents against that vile method, thank God. Cry it out would not ever be an option in my book because one, my instincts would not allow me to do it, and I'm a firm believer in following my biological programming, and two, it is so cruel to allow someone to fall asleep in such a way that is horrid, as the baby would be going to sleep crying unconsolably with nobody there to comfort him, hardly conditions anyone should fall asleep under, no matter their age.
One sleep aid that is natural and completely safe is Hylands Sleep Tablets. Hylands is wonderful and makes a number of different tablets for a number of different things. I really urge you to check them out. The sleep tablets work wonders, and they are made for all ages. I do use them to help myself sleep because I have trouble and always have. Unfortunately, I'm out of them so I'm going to take a night cap for tonight. But seriously, get them, and give them to an hour before his bedtime.
the site where you can get them is at www.hylands.com And the cool thing is they are very inexpensive. You'll be able to afford them. I hope that this helps. Get some sleep, girlie. If you have a support system, use the mess out of it. You are only human, and you need all the support that you can get. Nobody can do it completely alone. If you do not have one, check to see if there is a crisis nursery in your area. They take children up until the age of five years. Give them a call and let them know that your child just will not sleep through the night no matter what and you need a reprieve. Let me know how it goes.
Um ... drugging him? That just sounds scary .. and how does anyone know that the sleep aids that can be used on infants won't have repercussions on the child's development either mentally or physically later? are they even approved by the FDA?
mona, i feel your pain. i empathize. No one knows how bad it can e until they've walked our path.
Sleep is a fascinating subject. We are not supposed to do it all night. As adults and older kids, we know how to soothe ourselves and therefore aren't a pain to others or a danger to ourselves.
my beautiful 19 year old daughter rarely slept through the night until she was at least two. After that she still didn't but had the resources to entertain herself. When I was little, I rarely did either.
from When I was a toddler on up, I was allowed to have special toys in my bed that I could play with. They were my sleepy time friends and only used for that purpose. One thing I had that dad gave me was a little cheap radio. I started listening to far away stations at three or four and got a wonderful view of our big fantastic country.
any parent who is honest will admit that there have been times that a little shot of beledril or baby tylenol has been given. not often but when things get too much and it is either abuse the kid or get some rest in my never to be humble opinoion that is perfectly acceptable.
Your son lneeds to master soothing himself. When you said you'd go in and pat him and immediately he calmed down gave me the clue. get up go in and rub his back. Tell him that you love him gently and softly. it takes five minutes and he will go to sleep. after he's in snoozeville, sneak out quietly. after a few days he'll get it.
Our son did not sleep through the nightuntil he was about 18 months old. I know how hard this is and that, sadly, it is very hard to suggest improvements as kids are so different.
We bought a noise machine t Bed, Bath and Beyond for $20, it makes wve sounds or waterfall sounds, which just sounds like radio static. We've used this with both our kids with great effect, they abslutely love it and it helps them go to sleep (however, it does not necessarily help them stay asleep mind).
Apart from that it's just perserverence, make sure they're fed shortly before they go to sleep, you can't sleep on an empty tummy and that is a fact, may be a bottle of hot milk or something right before bed time will help a bit.
For yourselves, have at least one night a week where soothing the child is assigned to one person and the other one can, and should, sleep through it and not take care of it. Use the fact you can gang up on the child to your advantage.
This will get better and not in a to distant future. Once our son turned two, he sometimes woke up early or woke up in the middle of the night but contentedly played with his toys.
We moed him into a race car bed at age 18 months so he could get out of bed when he wanted, but we put up a gate in the door of his bed room so he wouldn't go running around the apartment. He really liked that and after a few nights in the beginning he's slept better and more quietly in this than in the crib.
I forgot to mention the possibility of the child becoming dependent on medication to get to sleep. anyway, carry on ...
The sleep aids are all natural, and the FDA does not regulate natural supplements, and thank God they do not. I do not want any more of big brother regulating me personally. This country is a democracy, not a dictatorship, but anyhow, if you are really concerned about the supplements and want to go the way of what is regulated by the FDA, then go to your local drug store and ask your pharmicist to help you. If you are concerned about the sleep aids being habit forming, ask for something that is not. Not all sleep aids are habit forming. I'm glad that sleep aids are made. Being that I can hardly ever sleep well, I love the fact that I can use a sleep aid to sleep. Am I addicted to them? No. I just am wired very strangely, and my body clock has a mind of its own. I can't sleep without the aids. I don't fiend for them, and I use night caps at times, but I'm glad to have them there so I can sleep. There is nothing like a good night's sleep. I'm not afraid to suggest using a sleep aid to help the baby because it is unfair to both you and the baby if he cannot sleep. I'm also not ashamed to say that I'd use them for my own kids, should the need arise.
Turicane is right. Nobody is supposed to sleep perfectly through the night. We all wake for our creature comforts, such as to read a quick few pages of a book, watch a bit of TV, and whatever else. It is just that when we depend on others as a baby does, our night waking becomes a nuissance, and our carers want to completely and totally eradicate our night waking. I've even heard of caregivers of grown adults who have the minds of infants who would wake during the night, and their caregivers were desperate to make them sleep straight through without waking so they would not have to be bothered. So, what Turicane stated makes complete since.
And about sleeping through the night, we want to hurry up and train babies to sleep so deeply through the night, and then that training is undone because they soon have to learn to wake through the night like everyone else to use the potty. So, forcing them to sleep through the night is absolutely useless, and it is difficult on the child in my opinion because they have to undo a sleeping behavior that was placed on them unnaturally for the convenience of their parents or carers. Babies do not sleep through the night for reasons of survival. It is natural that they wake but extremely annoying to the parent or carer. Forcing them to sleep so deeply is also a sids risk, too, because they wake themselves up when their airways become obstructed. But when a baby is strictly sleep trained to sleep very deeply for twelve or so hours straight, they do not always wake up. So, it is best to do what is natural, in my opinion, though it may be immensely anoying. I expect a baby to wake every two hours at least until the age of two or three, and i expect him to depend on me until he can take care of his own physical needs. But, if he is sleeping like Noah is or like i did and still do, like hardly getting any sleep at all, I'd get him a sleep aid but not one that makes the baby sleep too deeply because the fear of sids. If it is any consolation, tell yourself that it is only temporary because the baby will be independent and dealing with his own night waking before long. He can start taking charge entertaining himself at the age of three and can understand simple instructions. Of course, this will depend on the intelligence and maturity level of the child. So, please think about that.
I also think that it is totally unrealistic to expect a completely dependent person, such as a baby, to soothe himself. Just think about it. What exactly can a baby do to soothe himself when being locked in a crib with nothing to do. It is not like he can have access to the remote and watch a TV show until he falls back to sleep. It is not like he can get his own glass of juice or a snack or read a book. The baby is completely dependent on us to help him get back to sleep, just as he is depend on us to be fed, changed, and bathed. Being comforted and reassured is no different than needing help to meet his physical needs. Of course, it can be exasperating because we just want to be sleeping instead of being bothered with another human being during the night. But what normally helps me when i catch myself feeling exasperated of the situation is that I just remind myself that that baby is dependent on me and will learn in time and will soothe himself when he is capable. I understand that it is a process that will come on its own and not one that I can rush because I just want to sleep and be done with it. After I sit back and think things over, the whole common sense thing takes over, and I realize things a bit better, and the picture is clearer to me.
I'm sorry. I'm an analyst. When someone gives me advice, such as that the baby needs to learn to soothe himself, I pick it apart and analyze how something like that is possible if he is dependent on us for all of his other needs. i try to understand how a baby can all of the sudden e independent emotionally when he depends on us to be changed, to manage pain, to eat, to drink, and for everything else. I don't see logically how it is possible for a baby to soothe himself without any of the tools. Self soothing will come when he can use the bathroom, entertain himself, and perform a few simple tasks. That is when it will happen. I pick apart everything that I'm told, use deductive reasoning, and analyze every ince. If it makes sense, and if it is logical, then I will do it. If it is not, i just chock it up to something useless and do not apply it.
While we are so worried about creating bad habbits in young children, and while we want so bad for the little ones to be independent, I realize that independence will come at its appropriate time and that it is inappropriate and illogical to rush it along. That is my feeling on the matter, anyhow.
But there is a difference between being an analyst, and being someone who actually has a kid and has to deal with this every day. It brings a totally new experience to the situation when you've actually had the kid and/or are raising a child. I wholeheartedly agree with the nature and water noise makers, also there are also theraputic devices that actually have soothing music and noises to help with sleep, those might help with your baby as well. Another thing that might help, at least I know it helped me when I was really small is music boxes. I know they make less and less of those but music honestly is one of the most wonderful, theraputic, soothing relaxing things you can give to your child, plus it's proven that the more exposed to music a child is the more creative and imaginative they become. While I agree, it's hard for a kid to sleep totally on his or her own I personally would much rather prefer the more natural soothing methods mentioned above. Drugging a baby to me, is just generally not a good idea in my oppinion, take it for what it's worth.
I completely agree with the last post.
If the baby is in particular discomfort, such as teething or with a fever, we use tylanol or motrin without hesitation, but otherwise we would never feed our baby sleeping aides. As far as I am aware there are no sleep medications that do not have addictive forming substances or just the act of taking a sleeping aide, in itself, can create a habit. At least I'd go to a doctor and get a second opinion before pumping my babies full of sleep mediction for my own peace of mind.
The baby has to learn to sleep on his own, to deal with the moments of being awake.
Music boxes are a very good thing too, that I forgot to mention.
I know what it is like being a parent and I unerstand the temptation, I even understand why drunken or unstable parents woud resort to hitting a baby after excessive crying or screaming, I'd never do it, but I understand how someone who either doesn't love the baby or is very unstable might, and I feel very sorry for them really as I feel discusted for them doing something hurtful to their own kids.
But being a parent you really learn a lot of things. I'd say a mix of the sleeping aid devices above as well as assigning nights so you can be guaranteed one or two nights of sleep a week, same for your partner, is the only way to go. It will get better, I know it may be hard to believe, we found it hard to believe at times, but either your baby will learn to deal with being awake without panicking or sleep through the night, age 2 is another big turning point for many babies for the better.
i agree with all of you that medicating a baby to sleep on a regular basis is not a good thing. putting toys in the crib and using the ideas presented by others like music boxes, i can't believe i forgot them too, are much better. learning to control our environment and getting positive results is an important part of maturation. one of the things my daughter loved was a bear the clipped on the side of the bed.it had a string on it. at a bout a year, i taught her how to pull tit. once it was all the way out, it would play soothing music box songs for 15 minutes. that usually lulled her back. if it didn't, she'd pull it again. also, i used books and/or music on tapes with both my kids. i imagine the same thing could be done with cds today. they would usually fall asleep with them even in to late childhood.
wildebrew and Turicane, I agree with what you have stated but have some questions. What do you do with a baby who just will not sleep, such as how I was am still am to this day (What a pity for mom because the sleeping patterns with me never ever ever got better.)? Also, don't you think that the time will come naturally when the baby will be able to deal with being awake on his own when it is age appropriate? I feel that so long as the child is dependent on me for everything else, then it will also make since that he will also be dependent on me to help get back to sleep. A baby cannot come out of the womb being fully dependent in all areas accept one. NO wonder the western world is in trouble. Children are emotionally deprived for the convenience of the parents. And did you know that studies show that incidence of anxiety and panick disorders are higher in the western world than in other parts? I'm wondering if this could be due to the trauma from being forced to be emotionally independent too early in fear of children becoming spoiled brats or getting on the parents' nerves. I also notice that our culture is so obsessed with being independent, as if it will not come on its own time naturally, hence the reason that some people push it when the baby is born. I've heard of people just leaving their newly born babies in a separate room to scream and cry all night and not going to them until morning. In my book, that is so much worse than giving a sleep aid, and such parenting can be construde as neglect.
I see that people are quik to tell me that I do not know what I'm talking about since I do not yet have kids myself, and it is true that I've obviously not had some experience because I'm childless that you all no doubt have, but I still do not see any answers to my very thought provoking questions as to how on earth can a baby, who is dependent on a carer for everything else become emotionally independent, never ever ever needing the parents or carers intervention? Also, how can a baby soothe himself? What on earth can he do? I feel that personally, people just say that stuff without thinking because they hear everyone else suggesting it. I have reason to believe that people do not stop and think about how such a thing can be done. I catch myself doing that from time to time, too. I'll suggest something that I've heard all the time without stopping to think about it because it feels so right, since everyone else around me says it, and when i actually do stop to think about what I had said, I could just slap myself really hard from offering advice that is illogical. Believe me, I've been guilty of that also, hence the reason I try to be more analytical and make sure i make perfect since, offering something sensible that people can use.
Now, here is a funny illustration. Try to imagine this. Go get yourself an adult crib, and they do make them for special needs people, have someone lock you in there, wear a diaper, and make sure you have nothing but be in a pitch black room. See how well you soothe yourself. Some of you might make it because you can do deep breathing, think about things, or let your mind wonder, skills that a baby has not developed, since they do not even have a since of reasoning, many others will not because there will be no creature comforts, such as those few pages of the book or paper to read, no drink to soothe your parched mouth, and keep in mind, you'd have that uncomfortable diaper to lie in until someone else decided to get to you at a time they felt was convenient. I do understand more than anyone of you will about how a baby feels though I'm childless. All my life, I've suffered a degree of incontinence until it got worse. I'm now one hundred percent diaper dependent, as I lack control. i may be childless, but I understand a baby so well in this way, since I also live it. And I'm not sure that I'd like to soothe myself while lying there until morning in a diaper that is wet and soiled because my parents or carers think that it promotes independence. I'm thinkful that I can do what a baby cannot, get up, change the diaper, and go back to sleep with one that is dry and comfortable, which is far soothing. See where I'm getting at? People can tell me all day that I'm child stupid because I'm childless, but you must admit that I raise good points and my argument is one that makes since.
I should also clear up that I would not recommend drugging a healthy baby every single night. i was referring to babies who have very severe sleep difficulties. Keep in mind that if a severe sleep problem is present, where the baby can stay up days on end without sleep, it is not healthy for the child's mental or physical state. It is also not healthy for the parent or carer because after losing so much sleep, irrational behavior can set in, hence the need for a good support system, good resources, and all else that will help the parent to cope and be a good carer. By the way that the Bad Influence was posting, i felt that she had one of those babies, hence the reason I suggested sleep aids. Because if you have a child who will stay up for days on end getting very little sleep, it can drive any parent mad. Humans can only go so long without sleep, and they need sleep to effectively care for another human being. And usually, in the case where severe sleep problems are present, such as in my case, nothing else works. I might be able to make a lot of money burning the midnight oil because I do not depend on sleep aids all the time. There are times I stay up for two and a half days straight working, but when I crash, I'm dead, which can't be healthy. So, I am reevaluating the situation with the doc on Monday, and for my own self, I'm considering happily depending on sleep aids so I can have a level of sanity for myself (But also keep in mind that I'm adult enough and have enough reasoning to cope with being awake day and night, and I'm not depending on someone else who can become frustrating with me, so the only one effected by my lack of sleep is me, hence the reason it is no big deal for me, whereas a baby, it is a hinderence and inconvenience, which is the reason a good network and resources are needed.). Just face it, some people, even babies, need sleep aids all the time, but it should never ever ever be a solution to everything, especially for convenience and selfish reasons on the part of the parent or carer, as some have stated above, just for severe cases, hence the reason I also suggested a crisis nursery.
I'd also have someone read the instructions to me carefully, make sure what I'm giving to my child is safe and natural--I'd not like to take the other route unless absolutely necessary, but that is my personal preference--and it is age appropriate. I suggested the natural supplements because they consist of all natural ingredients, something much much better than what the FDA regulates. I don't trust the FDA as far as I can throw them, as they allow medicines to stay on the market that have black box warnings. One would think that if a med is unsafe, it should be pulled, but i guess it is okay to have some suffer severely or die at the hands of profit, right? Well, nobody should, in my book.
Doctors have suggested a couple times that I take Tysabri, a drug for MS that carries some very deadly side effects, and guess what? It is regulated by the good ol' Godly big brother FDA, who would like you to believe that they care about the consumers. This is the reason I'd recommend anything natural before I'd recommend anything that is regulated by the FDA. After all, there are no side effects that are dammaging, and it is not habit forming. But as I stated before, if there are some who want to live for FDA and government regulation, they can talk to the pharmicist or other medical professional. I thought I should make that clear before some of you get the really wrong idea about me.
Geek Woman, we are in agreement on many points, such as the fact that kids are forced to soothe themselves and grow up, speak 4 languages and read and write, before they even enter elementary school, or so one feels. They are not allowed to be kids and should stay quiet and easy for the convenience of their parents who are too obsessed with their careers to be able to care properly for them.
But your initial drug suggestion sounded exactly like something taken from that book, if the baby is loud, drug him/her and then you won't have to worry about it. I see from your last post that is not what you meant, which is great, but my point still stands that one needs to be extremely careful with using chemicals to help a baby sleep, even if it is still a last resort. It depends on the severity of the case and in the original post it sounded more like the Bad Influence was exhausted rather than the baby being abnormally sleep deprived. I've gone through the same, through a period I felt I couldn't deal with another night, all parents have, hence my repeated suggestion since there's two of them they split up nights and have one where one of them goes in to take care of the baby. I've never suggested just leaving the baby alone screaming all night, I've seen people subscribe to that kind of methodology and I cannot agree with it under any circumstances.
But I have huge mistrust in natural and herbal remedies, because they are not regulated at all and people could be selling you grass mixed with oak leafs, claiming it is some super substance. I see you have a huge distrust for the FDA, but I think the same arguments you used can be used for the herbla community. There's good products on both sides of the divide, for colic there are some fantastic herbal things that we've used, but I'd be careful to use them for sleeping.
Your case seems very extreme and you have to deal with a lot of problems, and you seem to be coping very admireably with them, but you sure use unorthodox means and you always have, so generally I can't give advice along the lines you do, which does not mean mine is correct and yours isn't. I can only advise based on my experience and it is vastly different from yours.
have no fear, medication is not an option for us, and it's not that he's got a problem, he's just extremely curious and full of innergy at this age, he wants to be up and exploring at every minute of the day, and we're just tired, I just don't think that medication is the rout we want to go. I don't even want to worrie that i'm the reason for my child's adiction if there was one, later down the rode.
he is in a big boy bed now, because he never ever! put up with the crib at all! so he's got his big boy bed and he does get down and play with his toys, with the baby gate over the dore, the only problem is sometimes he'll fall asleep in the flore, and doesn't that make you feel like crap to come in and find your kid curled up in a ball in the flore beside his toys asleep>? because he just doesn't understand that when he reaches a serten point of sleepyness he is suppose to get back in to bed. he's too young.
bleh! thank you guys for all the aussom ideas.
I dunno, it´s kind of sad but also kind of cute to find them curled up on the floor. Our son doesn´t seem to mind it, it doesn´t happen often but from time to time.
mona, it sounds like you are doing everything right. if he falls asleep by his toys, guess what? if he wakes up, is cold and uncomfortable, he learned something. you have found a great way to handle the situation.
i did the same thing. i couldn't have my two toddlers running unsupervised throughout the house. i used a hook and eye at the top of the door so that i could get in but they couldn't get out. same thing and more privacy for me.